NDEs and Quantum Physics
with Kevin Williams by Justin Nobel at Digital Dying
Nobel, B.Sc., M.A., M.S.,
is an award-winning freelance journalist who operates
on the Internet at
Justin explores death, across history and around the globe.
In 2012, Justin interviewed
the webmaster of this site, by phone and the following is an
edited transcript of that interview. I took the liberty to expand
on the questions asked of me from the first interview.
JUSTIN NOBEL: Kevin Williams
runs a popular near death experience
"I no longer have any doubt that life goes on after death,"
says Williams. Is it really possible to
float above your own body?
Does consciousness live
Are all our brains and the entire universe just a
Digital Dying at
recently spoke about these matters
with Kevin Williams, who runs one of the web's most popular
sites on near-death experiences.
What's a near-death experience
KEVIN WILLIAMS: There may be succinct stages
experienced such as going through a
a homecoming with
loved ones in heaven, experiencing a
and a marvelous encounter with
a being made of
divine light and love. Some people observe
cities of light.
Some people are given
visions of the
future, such as, what would happen to surviving family members
if the person decided to stay in the light and not to return
from their NDE. Some people are shown the future of Earth based
on current probabilities or they are given a great amount of
in an effort to foster change on Earth. NDEs are as very dynamic
- if not more dynamic - than any experience on Earth. People
have described the experience as more real than any physical
reality. By comparison, humans appear to be going about their
business on Earth in a kind of trance while conscious awareness
on the Other Side is far more developed: 360 degree vision,
by means of telepathy, instantaneous travel, a realm where
thoughts are deeds, etc. Some people have even
scientific knowledge from their NDE leading to new discoveries.
Some people are not able to recall the great amount of knowledge
given them after their NDE, while others are allowed to retain
them. People having NDEs often return saying our entire world
system is upside down: the raising and teaching of children
should be society's highest priority while the pursuit of materialistic
things and pleasures should be last. Some people are shown their
on Earth. Other people might experience time travel and
from before they were born: forgotten knowledge.
Death is just
a "body problem" where we enjoy life unrestricted
by a physical body. Death has been described as like taking
off an old coat you have been wearing for a very long time.
JUSTIN NOBEL: What typically triggers
a near death experience?
KEVIN WILLIAMS: The most transcendental ones
are caused by triggers which bring people closest to physical
death such as cardiac arrests. You can also experience them
through mediation, hypnosis, psychedelics or even sex. I profile
one woman on my website who has
when she has sexual orgasms.
trigger a NDE also. Many people don't realize this but when
we dream at night we actually enter various realms of the afterlife.
Every night we go back the spiritual realm - our true home -
otherwise life would be intolerable. We are not human beings
having a spiritual experience, we are spiritual beings having
a human experience.
More insights can be found in the article "Dead
But Not Dead, Fantastic But True Stories of Coming Back from
the Grave." Kevin, have
you ever had a near-death experience?
KEVIN WILLIAMS: Not in this lifetime. However,
when my mother was killed in an auto accident in 2001, two days
later she interrupted
a dream I was having. In the dream, I opened a door and
ran into a room. Then lo and behold, there was my mother sitting
on a couch in a kind of heavenly waiting room! The moment I
saw her, I experienced a wonderful miracle - something I never
experienced before or since. When I saw her, I immediately awoke
- except I still in the dream! I knew I was really seeing and
talking to my mother and that I was still in a dream. I later
learned this phenomenon is called a
lucid dream. I said to her, "Mom, you're not dead!"
She replied that she had yet to contact my younger brother.
Then I woke up knowing I had just communicated with my mother
from the Other Side to tell me she was still alive. I phoned
my sister days later to tell her about it and discovered she
had exactly the same dream on the exact same night. Her response
was also the same as mine, "Mom, you're not dead."
This phenomenon is known as a "veridical
communication with my mother was my own personal validation
that consciousness survives death. Before this experience, I
was sure there was an afterlife based upon NDE research alone.
But after this experience, I have absolutely no doubt that life
goes on after death. People who have NDEs realize this also
and nobody can tell them otherwise. NDE studies also show that
a person does not need to have a NDE to benefit from them. Merely
reading enough NDE testimonies is enough for many people to
gain the same spiritual benefits NDErs do. This is one of the
main reasons I built my website.
When did humans first begin having near death experiences?
KEVIN WILLIAMS: Plato was the first person in
Western Civilization to describe a near-death experience in
his book Republic where he describes a tale involving
a soldier called
Er. Er was killed in battle and was about to have his body
burned on a funeral pile when he revived. The experience he
described while dead is remarkably similar to modern NDE testimony.
Er observed some souls descending to Earth to be reincarnated
and observed other souls ascending to higher spirit realms.
You might say Plato was the father of the near-death experience
in the West. But hundreds of years earlier, Tibetan monks were
reading a religious text called the
Tibetan Book of
the Dead which is based partly upon Tibetan NDErs called "delogs."
So it took thousands of years for scientists in the West to
slowly but surely climb and overcome the mountain of ignorance
reaching for the summit of enlightenment and attaining the peak
of scientific understanding only to see Tibetan monks who have
been sitting there for millennia.
How does the idea of God fit into a near death experience?
KEVIN WILLIAMS: The word "God" has
so much "baggage" attached to it that it's practically
meaningless. But when I refer to
God or divinity,
I don't mean a big Old Man on a Throne. In the physical realm,
I believe divinity is best understood as "Mother Nature"
panpsychism. I believe the NDE evidence shows life itself
to be divine.
Mathematics is the language of God in the physical and quantum
physics is the science of God. At the spiritual level, I believe
the evidence shows divinity is best understood as being similar
to the all-pervasive "Force"
described in the movie "Star Wars." NDE research reveals
the existence of
a hierarchy of
afterlife realms or dimensions where souls can experience
God in various degrees according to this hierarchy. The
realms are where God is less obvious and where there is
a lesser manifestation of divine light, love, and life. The
higher the soul moves up this afterlife hierarchy, the more
the manifestation of God become greater and more obvious. As
souls, we are working our way up this hierarchy with the goal
of attaining at-one-ment with the divine. I believe the evidence
suggests the physical universe we currently inhabit to be roughly
in the middle of this afterlife hierarchy. This means we are
already in the afterlife right now; and that, as human beings,
we are halfway to heaven. If this is true, then it explains
why the manifestation of divine light, love, and life in this
universe is not so obvious. People who have experienced divinity
in higher afterlife realms by means of a NDE have described "God"
on the Other Side as being like the air we breathe here on Earth.
God's presence is felt everywhere in the higher afterlife realms
and is so obvious you can't deny it. However, materialistic
scientists do not accept subjective or personal experiences
as proof of anything scientific even though Einstein once eloquently
stated, "the only source of knowledge is experience."
Another great article along these lines is, "How
Different Religions Around the World Deal with Death."
Kevin, how does faith determine ones' ability to have a near-death
KEVIN WILLIAMS: It doesn't matter what
your belief system
is to have a NDE. People from all walks of life have reported
them. And when it comes to having a positive or hellish NDEs,
it doesn't seem to matter what your belief system is or how
you die. What matters most on the Other Side is
how you lived
your life and
how much have
you loved others unconditionally. Love is the key because
love is God. Love is the "glue" holding everything
in life together: from the atom to the solar system, to the
galaxy and the universe. So it doesn't matter whether you are
an atheist, a priest, a Buddhist, or even a Satanist; the only
thing that matters to God is how much love you have expressed
toward others. It is apparent to me from NDE studies that the "force"
of love is somehow the solution to the physicists'
Grand Unifying Field Theory and the
Theory of Everything. The
divine power of
love is the
holding everything together and bringing all things to light.
Unconditional love is the closest thing we can experience to
to the divine. It is the kind of love that goes beyond the physical
and is spiritual. People who have NDEs describe the love felt
in the higher realms as unlike any love experienced on Earth.
Love in this physical realm is more closer to erotic love than
divine love. The level of divine light and love manifested in
these realms depends on what afterlife realm you're currently
in. Our universe is merely one of these realms.
NDE research also reveals
just as many positive NDEs than religious people. In fact,
NDE research suggests a person's belief system is not a big
factor in determining whether their NDE is
example, my uncle is a retired radiologist and a devoted student
of astronomy and evolution. He doesn't believe in a God at all,
but I know he "worships" the "higher power"
in his own way through his devotion to studying nature. And
who can say he is not more religious than many practicing religionists?
After all, Edgar
Cayce once put it this way, "He who understands
nature walks close with God." I believe there is a
lot of truth in this quote. NDE testimony overwhelmingly describes
God in natural terms of light, life, and love.
What does quantum physics have to do with near-death experiences?
KEVIN WILLIAMS: As I mentioned before, mathematics
is the language of God in the physical. There is also evidence
that quantum physics may one day prove mathematically how
survives bodily death. It is not difficult to view consciousness
as an energy which can neither be created nor destroyed. Consciousness
is supreme when it comes to NDE studies and quantum physics.
There is evidence from
parapsychology, and religion ,
suggesting consciousness is not localized in the brain and that
it transcends the physical realm. There is also sufficient evidence
in my mind to accept
a theory of quantum mechanics where our
consciousness perception of objects causes the collapse of light
waves to light particles which is how we see things. The
things we see "out there" are not really as solid
as we perceive them. It's kind of an illusion because all physical
objects are composed of atoms consisting mostly of empty space
where the nucleus and electrons are very tiny. It is the enormous
energy of the atom itself which makes objects look and feel
solid. Therefore, because atoms are filled mostly with energy
in empty space, it is not difficult assume we are mostly composed
of "spirit energy" So there's a dual nature to reality
and this duality explains why our consciousness can be separated
from our physical bodies. Consciousness is something akin to
the airwaves of a radio station. You can destroy a radio but
you haven't destroyed the airwaves where the music is playing.
So there appears a difference between the mind and the brain.
We are not our brains. We are not merely physical beings. There
is more to us than just the sum of our parts. This theory of
the brain, called the "Holonomic
Brain Theory" is part of an even larger concept
and the "Holographic
Principle" where the universe can be defined as having
the properties of a
hologram. Our brains seem to act like hologram-generators
which is how we see things in our mind's eye. And if the universe
and everything in it is a hologram, this would explain why our
consciousness sometimes seems to be in line with other people's
consciousness. It would also explain a plethora of paranormal
phenomena such as telepathy and even NDEs and OBEs.
In the bizarre realm of quantum mechanics,
two particles can become "entangled" and interact
with each other - no matter how far away they are from each
other - even if they are separated by billions of light years.
This fact caused Einstein a lot of headaches and he referred
to this phenomena as "spooky actions from a distance"
because nothing can travel faster than light. Yet, because two
particles can interact with each other faster than the speed
of light, it suggests that two particles can be connected
no matter how far apart they are.
This fact supports the emerging holographic paradigm of all
atoms in the universe being connected to all other atoms in
the form of a hologram.
Will science someday be able to explain the afterlife with a
KEVIN WILLIAMS: Quantum physicists have discovered
the so-called "God particle" recently - also known
Higgs boson particle - the elusive particle which bestows
mass on all other particles. This last "piece" of
the cosmic puzzle in the "Standard
Model" of particle physics is a major development.
The Standard Model incorporates other possible theories in physics
supporting the existence of a quantum nature of consciousness.
If the mind relies on some quantum mechanism, then it's possible
consciousness is not limited exclusively or localized to the
brain and skull. Evidence for the existence of quantum processes
in warm and "wet" biological systems are growing every
year. There's a major scientific study going on right now trying
to determine whether under scientific controls patients can
observe events while "outside" of their body. There's
a mountain of "circumstantial evidence" supporting
this; but the problem is that this kind of evidence is considered
subjective - subject to a person's own interpretation - and
science demands objective evidence. Unfortunately, the scientific
method is unable to quantify conscious experience. In other
words, the mind has not explained the brain fully. It's why
science is having so much trouble keeping up knowledge attained
from mysticism and spirituality. It appears to me that the fields
of science, psychology, philosophy and religion are quickly
approaching a point of merger and neither field really likes
JUSTIN NOBEL: What does the future hold
KEVIN WILLIAMS: From all the evidence I have
come across, someday in the future humans will evolve to such
an extent they will be able to walk on water, control the weather
with their minds, and possess great psychic abilities. Through
the process of evolution-reincarnation, enough souls will be
born into this world from the higher realms bringing with them
the so-called "kingdom of God" on Earth - the "second
coming" of Christ and the thousand years of peace - the
final incarnation of the Hindu god Vishnu - the World to Come
and the Hebrew Messiah - the arrival of the Maitreya Buddha
- a close encounter of the "alien/angel" kind - whatever
you want to call the coming "quantum leap" in the
evolutionary progress of humanity. Souls from the lower spirit
realms will not be permitted to reincarnate at this time to
allow this "Golden Age" to come. After this Golden
Age (of Aquarius), souls from the lower spirit realms will once
again be allowed to reincarnate; and by then, the world will
be in a better position to school them.
this Golden Age arrives, the evidence suggests there will some
kind of major "catalyst" to spark major changes on
Earth and humanity - some kind of global disaster - whether
it be global climate, nuclear war, pole reversal, or an asteroid/comet.
I believe the evidence tilts toward an astroid/comet which will
force people to stop killing each other and start helping one
other. Many cities will disappear around the coastlines of the
world, but it's not the end of the world. It's the end of an
old paradigm and the beginning of a new paradigm where people
will become much less technological and much more spiritual
and closer to nature. There will be great loss of life, but
it is our Mother Earth purifying herself from humanity's transgressions
upon her. Through it all, humanity will continue to evolve and
reincarnate while paradise on Earth is ultimately attained.
Once a person has reached their evolutionary goal on Earth and
has completed their "mission from God," the soul has
earned its way to move on to higher "schools" - afterlife
dimensions - in God's gigantic "University." You might
say everyone is working their way up God's "Corporate Ladder"
- the "many abodes of our Heavenly Father" as Jesus
mentioned - towards the goal of attaining with the "Godhead."
Whether this progression lasts forever, I don't know. But we
- as human beings - are constantly moving in and out of these
other dimensions of reality through our dreams, meditation,
daydreams, and out-of-body experiences.