is one of the most interesting NDEs you will
ever read. After evaluating
childhood NDE profiled here, I have found some
very interesting aspects about it. His discussion
of the "black world" is a very good
description of the
experience which many experiencers have described.
In the void, or what the Bible
refers to as "outer
exists all kinds of mischievous souls. These
souls often refuse to enter the light for some
reason. They are souls with heavy negative vibrations
and are often thought to be "demons".
But souls of higher vibrations (i.e. light beings)
try to bring these unfortunate souls into the
light which they ultimately succeed in doing.
near-death accounts involve this void and it
is generally only a transitory space that people
travel through (usually by means of the tunnel)
to get to the light. Some people spend more
time in the void than others, but the evidence
suggests that souls remain there until they
find within themselves the love that causes
them to be attracted to the light and leave
NDE is like many others in that he experiences
the Being of Light (whom he identifies as Jesus),
the void, and a very interesting life review.
He also experiences time travel, but Guenter's
time travel experience is like none I have ever
read. Although his NDE may seem unusual at times
(because the void experience can be unusual),
this is a good example of the subjective nature
of NDEs. It is also a long near-death account
but certainly well worth reading.
Wagner's Near-Death Experience
I do not know
exactly how old I was when I had this
experience, but everything happened in our
new home, so I must have been 11 years old,
On that day I
left my flat on the first floor when, all of
a sudden, I heard a voice behind me. I
quickly turned around but there was nobody.
I cannot recall the exact words, but the
voice said, in effect, that the quality of
my world that I knew of was nothing compared
to the one that he would be able to show me.
“Nonsense,” I said to myself and started to
run down the stairs to the basement in a
boisterous and cheerful way. There were only
a few steps left when I jumped up high
knocking my head against the ceiling.
The impact of
this blow sent me down on my knees and I
quickly passed out. I fell into a deep
blackness. I remember going through a kind
of black hose. At the end of it, I felt
being drawn back by a mysterious force, but
I resisted because I did not want to go back
through that black hose again. I went
forward and suddenly I found myself in a
I did not know
where I was, and, looking around, I saw in
some distance someone slowly coming towards
me. Actually, I did not see this figure at
all because there was nothing to look at.
However, I sensed a gray figure being there.
I definitely knew that there was someone. I
said, "I have lost my
way. Could you please show me the right way
The next thing I
knew was that I was lying on the basement
floor. I heard this extremely uncomfortable
ringing noise, which gradually became more
and more intense. Then the noise stopped,
and, all of a sudden, I realized that a
white, gauze-like material was very slowly
oozing out of my head.
It took on the
shape of a very long stocking and floated at
a slight angle right above me. I became very
embarrassed, because I did not want to be
seen by anyone with this material coming out
of me. Meanwhile, more of this gauze-like
material was collecting itself under the
ceiling and I could not do anything to stop
it. I did not feel any pain whatsoever in
dawned on me that I was out of my body. It
must have happened the moment this oozing
stopped. I saw a body lying on the floor,
which could only belong to me. I was
shivering and I quickly wanted to return to
my body and its warmth when I heard someone
going back, see what it is like outside!"
I believe this is the voice of a mischievous
soul in the void]
However, I did
not pay any attention to the voice. Although
I could not see any physical body but my
own, this voice was quite near. Then I heard
it again, this time it was begging me very
"Please, do not
go back, I beseech you. Why do you not want
to discover your new faculties first? You
may still go back if you do not like them.”
After all, this voice was right. Why
shouldn't I give it a try? On that the voice
"Test your mind!
If you do you will discover that you can
think in a way you have never experienced
The voice was
right again. I could think very lucidly
indeed, and I was able to understand very
quickly with a directness that did not leave
a trace of doubt. Then I heard the voice
"If you are
willing to stay outside of your body, you
will make a wonderful journey and you will
see many interesting things. However, you
must decide quickly! So hurry up!"
began to consider the whole situation. It
was really up to me whether I wanted to
return to my body and live the life on Earth
with all its limitations and with all its
joy or to stay outside in this condition of
clear thinking. The voice again urged me to
hurry up and to tell him whether I had made
up my mind.
I gave in. I
decided to stay outside and I instantly
realized that my body had to die, meaning
total destruction by decay. I thought to
myself, "How sad for my
As for me, I did
not feel any regrets, because my body was
now only a wrapper to me, a burden of which
I freed myself the moment I had decided to
realized that I was able to move freely
about in a way I had never experienced
before. I was floating right through the
walls of our house (I saw my mother in front
of the kitchen stove cooking a meal) and up
into the sky. In the distance, I saw a great
shining ball, which was the sun. I felt
irresistibly attracted to it by its
brightness and I wanted to go right into it.
No sooner had I thought this when I hit
something that catapulted me far out into
blackness. I tried once more, but it all
happened again. I quickly learned that there
had to be an invisible barrier that I could
only approach but not overcome.
I had another go
and this time I stopped right in front of
this barrier in order to watch the sun,
which was now shining in a reddish glow. Its
size was relatively small because I had to
look at it from a distance, which was
determined by this invisible barrier.
Nevertheless, the reddish glow of the sun
did not satisfy me at all.
the voice said, "There are more
As I was looking
around, I saw in the distance a multitude of
other lights, which shone much brighter than
the Earth's sun. I wanted to be with those
lights! Although they were far, far away, I
could reach them in an instant. However,
each individual light had its own effective
barrier that knocked me off into the
blackness again every time I tried to
contact with these barriers was very
unpleasant, because every time I touched
them, my whole being was violently shaken.
All of a
sudden, the voice said, "Look for a
single, bright light and approach it
I believe this is either the voice of a
helpful light being or a helpful soul in the
I chose an
individual light whose brightness was much
greater than all the other lights around it
and I approached it very carefully. I saw a
huge ball burning incredibly bright. The
voice told me that it was one of the many
stars that I was able to see from the Earth.
I was watching
this ball for quite a long time until I
could not look at it any longer. Therefore,
I withdrew into the blackness again. I began
to consider my situation. I could not stay
in that blackness forever. There must be a
way out. I looked around and I saw another
cluster of stars that was strangely twisted.
to go there but I heard the voice
say, "They are all
alike. Go up!"
I did not know
where up was, but tried all the same - with
success, because I saw very far away, over
the blackness, a shimmering line. I wanted
to go there in spite of that incredibly long
distance, but I only wanted to go to the
edge of this line, because I did not know
whether it had a barrier or not.
I covered the
distance instantly. This time there was no
barrier that would repel me. The light came
from another world. (While our world is
black with lights in it - this other world
is bright). However, I could not enter this
world. I was moving around in every
direction trying to figure out a passageway
to this world. I soon realized that there
was only one possibility: Hurling myself
down this black abyss that lay right in
front of me. I hesitated. I did not have the
courage to jump.
suddenly, I heard the voice again, "There is no
other way! You will have to jump! Jump!
Then I jumped. I
do not know what happened next, but I do
remember very vividly that I suddenly found
myself moving at a tremendous speed through
a tunnel of blackness. I had entered this
tunnel headfirst. My whole being was in a
kind of a cylinder or pipe and I shot
through this tunnel like a capsule in the
tubes of a pneumatic post.
I was moving
faster and faster, until I was ejected far
into this new universe. The blackness was
instantly substituted by a sort of dim
brightness (if I may say so). I tumbled over
myself several times very vehemently until I
felt being slowed down by this new world. I
remember thinking, "Why are they
treating me so rough?"
I felt this new
world closing in on while simultaneously the
old world was retreating until I was
completely taken up by this new world.
being ejected I heard the voice
shout at me, "This is your
world! You do not belong to us! You have to
remain in this world! Don't you ever try to
I turned around
and I saw a piece of the black world, which
I must have trailed behind me while being
ejected, withdraw to the opening where it
was finally sucked up. The moment the old
world was shut out, I was immediately taken
up by the new one, so much so, that I was
thoroughly convinced that I could only
further exist in this new world. I had no
choice anyway. The black world was gone. I
was now an inseparable part of this new
world. I thought to myself, "This scoundrel
of a voice! He has betrayed me by forcing me
into this world. There is no way back! This
is final! Hopefully, I will be able to
breathe and not suffocate to death."
tried to breathe, but I soon found out that
no breathing was necessary. I simply could
exist. As long as I was in the black world,
I had never thought about breathing.
As I said
earlier, everything around me was dimly
bright. Although it was bright, I could not
see clearly. The impact of the finality of
the condition I was in was overwhelming.
Although I felt being part of this new world
I did not know anything about it. I felt
utterly alone, betrayed, very tiny and
insignificant. No other soul far and wide. I
started wailing about my situation. I did
not know what to do. I felt very miserable.
All right, I was
able to move freely wherever I wanted to go.
However, where should I go? No one was
there! No one? Nevertheless, there were
voices very far away! In fact, I heard two
hear them say, in complete
disbelief, something like that, "Look, look,
there is a little soul! Look there is a
young soul! What is he doing here? How did
he come here?"
Voices in this
world were actually no voices at all.
Something was thought and I immediately
understood what they were talking about.
What I am reporting now are impressions and
not the meaning of actual words. These
impressions were, however, so clear that I
had no doubts whatsoever.
complaining that I would not know anyone in
this bright world and that I had been forced
to come there. The voices drew nearer.
However, I could not see anybody. I simply
sensed their presence, which was very fine
with me. I now knew that there were beings
in that world with whom I was able to
communicate. Beings, however, that were
simultaneously strangers, but friendly ones.
The beings urged
me to go back where I had come from. I
thought this very ridiculous being now a
part of this new world. Moreover, even if I
really wanted to go back, which was
impossible, how should I proceed? In
addition, even if I did succeed in finding
my way back, I would not have the slightest
idea where my native world, Earth, lay. Then
I sensed that they wanted to force me out of
this world. I became very upset and I
thought, "No one can force
me to leave this world. I have a right to
stay here, because I am a part of it."
The two beings
must have understood what I was thinking,
because I could not sense their voices any
longer. Then, one of the beings guided me (I
do not know how) to a place that I had not
seen before. The other one must have gone
away calling for assistance in attempting to
find the right approach of how a situation
like that should be handled.
This place turned
out to be a meadow with many flowers in it.
It was a wonderful meadow, but I knew that
it was only an image of a meadow, somehow
conjured up and suspended in this new world.
The being asked me to play on the meadow,
but I could not. I simply did not know how.
All of a sudden,
I was aware of a tiny bright light far away
in the "sky" but rapidly coming nearer and
nearer. It was shaped like a ball and it was
indescribably bright. I tried to shade my
eyes, but I did not need to. Despite its
incredible brightness and brilliance, it did
not dazzle me a bit!
light stopped at a distance right above me.
It was a sun about the same size as the sun
of our world, but it was indescribably
brighter. I kept staring at this sun
wondering how a light could possess such
brilliance. (The brightness of the lights in
the black world was brilliant, too, but of a
realized that it was scrutinizing me very
closely. On that, it opened up, and a beam
came pouring down on me.
And I heard it
shouting at me, "I can destroy
you if you do not tell the truth about your
I answered, "But
I do not know anything else but the truth!"
happened that I would never, never forget.
Love, pure, utter love came pouring down on
me along with incredible warmth. My whole
soul or being was immersed in this love. He
lifted me up and gave me a kiss on my mouth.
This Being of Light loved me deeply,
infinitely deeply, and more and more
intensively. I was happy! I could have
stayed in this beam of love forever. If my
story had been a lie, the Being of Light
would have annihilated me. I had a clear
conscience anyway, so there was no reason to
loving became weaker and I felt that
something was wrong with me - something that
made it very difficult for the light to
continue with his love. He was trying not to
tell me why.
however, he was not able to keep it
up any longer and he quickly said, "You have a
smelly breath. You need a bath."
I believe this is a reference to the
purification process that some souls go
through. The phrase "smelly breath" may be a
reference to "smelly thoughts" or negative
thoughts which are incompatible with
existence in the higher afterlife realms.
Such thoughts have also been described in
other NDEs as a form of "thought bacteria."
Various NDEs demonstrate how such thought
processes must be purified before entering
these higher realms.]
I received the
impression that I would have to take a bath
similar to that I was used to on Earth, but
by dipping the whole body. It was made plain
to me that this process was going to be
unpleasant, but I could stop it when it
became too painful for me to bear.
Although I could
not comprehend the reason, I was willing to
do what the Being of Light wanted me to do.
I was lifted up and put into a red light. I
closed my eyes. I could not feel anything. I
did not know for how long I had been in this
state. After some time, however, I realized
that I was being tossed about rather
rigorously. It was like being in a washing
machine. I cried, "I think that is
was lowered down and the love and the warmth
were switched off, but I still remained in
this beam (or sphere).
Suddenly the sun
disappeared and I saw a moon. I was in a
different world. Everything was black but
the moon, which was right in front of me. It
was much clearer and more refulgent than the
moon in our world. There was not a trace of
blackness in it. The moon was surrounded by
a wreath of little, bright stars. I kept
staring at this shiny moon when suddenly I
felt a strange sensation entering through my
left eye and spreading into the deepest
recesses of my brain.
I was wondering
about the fact that I could distinctly see
the moon with my left eye that had always
been weaker than my right one and I suddenly
realized that right in front of me were all
the answers to any questions we might have
on Earth. I got very excited about this and
I tried to locate the place about which I
wanted to tell our scientists on Earth that
they should come and see this extraordinary
I tried to
pinpoint this place by looking at the left
side of the moon and counting the little
bright stars. However, in doing so I
realized that they were not stars but in
turn little moons.
Again, I was
looking at the left side of the moon and the
more I was looking the more little moons
were coming up in a straight line, one
little moon after the other. There was no
hope of locating this place. Then I began to
feel cold and I was shivering. I remembered
the sun of our world, its warmth that
sometimes may have been too hot but,
overall, it was life-giving warmth. I
desperately wanted to return to the bright,
living sun. Only then did I realize that I
was looking at the moon with my left eye
while my right eye was closed. I wanted to
open my right eye to see the sun again but I
was not able to.
I wanted to leave
the moon, which I was no longer interested
in. I wanted to go back to the bright,
living sun. I tried very hard but in vain, I
even felt an extremely unpleasant pain in my
head. All of a sudden, however, the moon
with its black surroundings disappeared and
I saw this incredible bright sun again.
Suddenly the sun
started to move backwards changing its
colors to a deep dark red. It kept moving
back into the sky until it was a very tiny
red light - like a point. Then it began to
move very quickly. At one time I saw the
bright sun on the left side and then the red
sun on the right side, dancing, as it were,
from left to right and from right to left.
I felt that the
sun wanted to communicate with me. I thought
to myself that up here the suns cannot speak
but just move about and that this was their
way of talking. Then it stood still and I
saw the bright sun in front of the tiny red
sun. Nevertheless, I could not make out what
this was all about. I regarded the whole
spectacle more as a funny and entertaining
act than anything else. However, it was not
funny at all. I suddenly felt that I should
be transferred back into the world with the
shiny moon and I remembered the unpleasant
pain and the cold that I had encountered
realized that the bright sun in front of me
was the shiny moon and that the red sun had
the moon safely under control making in fact
one sun. This was the message that the sun
had wanted to get across.
Then the Being of
Light wanted to talk to me on a man-to-man
basis. He placed me on top of a high
mountain where I had to sit on a large piece
I asked him why
he had wanted to destroy me, and he told me
that there existed also evil but very
powerful and cunning beings who were his
enemies with whom he had been constantly
fighting. He also told me that I had to warn
my world against them, and I automatically
nodded in agreement. He said that his
enemies had wanted to play a trick on him by
using me as a kind of trap, but he had to
defend this world and the black one. His
world, however, would be much easier for him
to defend, because the evil beings had no
power in it and he had no power in the black
I realized having
been positioned in such a way that I was
able to overlook a huge stretch of clouds
that were marvelously illuminated from
below. Suddenly a flash of lightning whose
intense light was much greater than that of
the bright world, forced me to look up. Then
a big bang followed, but I was totally
unperturbed. On the horizon, I saw smoke
bulging out of the clouds and gradually
taking on the shape of a mushroom. It grew
larger and larger and brighter and brighter.
I was in complete awe. Suddenly everything
the light call, "Look here!"
I turned around,
and I heard screams and I saw fire and smoke
almost surrounding me.
I did not
comprehend what this was all about,
when suddenly the light cried, "I will do
everything in my power to prevent this from
was over. Again, the bright light wanted to
talk about his enemies. However, I was still
very impressed with what had just happened.
So I thought to myself, "Oh no, not
light made me aware of the fact that this
war had been going on for a very long time,
and the evil beings had become more and more
powerful, and if this continued he would not
see any means of preventing them from taking
over everything. He said that if the enemy
had really succeeded in coming into his
world, the war would have been lost. He
would have been powerful enough, no doubt,
to fight them off, but the war would have
been lost in the long run. He was really
afraid of loosing this war. Then it was
intimated to me that he needed help. I
wanted to help him, and I replied, "Yes, but how?"
He answered that
the only way I could help him was by going
back and telling my world what had happened
to me. I was completely shocked to hear him
say so, because I did not want to go back. I
was so depressed that I almost started to
All of a
sudden he asked, "Would you like
to know what will become of you later on in
I looked up and
answered cheerfully, "Yes, I would love to."
said, "You will become a teacher."
To a certain
extent I was disappointed and repeated, "A
replied, "Imagine a teacher in your world
and show me what it is like being one."
I imagined, quite
vividly, a teacher who was standing in front
of his pupils giving lessons.
said, "No, not that kind of teacher."
I was then
thinking of a university professor lecturing
to his students.
said, "Not that
kind of teacher. You are going to teach the
I was surprised
and almost could not believe it. Besides, I
considered this quite difficult. I imagined
a map of my world, and I saw myself in
future life going from place to place, from
university to university teaching the
university teachers of my world.
light said, "No, not like that. They will
come to you!"
I replied, "To my
The light said,
"Yes, imagine such a situation."
I imagined our
house on Earth, our living room, and I saw
myself sitting on a chair opposite a
stern-looking, respectable professor, trying
to teach him. However, I failed. I was too
embarrassed and too shy. I said, "I do not
think I am clever enough to do this.
Moreover, I have a speech impediment."
replied, "You will become a new type of
teacher and I am going to explain it to you
in a moment."
He then paused,
and I looked up and saw myself lying on a
hospital bed that was being pushed down a
very long corridor by a member of the
medical staff. I asked, slightly alarmed, "Am I being ill?"
replied, "No! Just a little bit confused.
You will be taken to hospital where you will
get a shot and fall into a very deep sleep."
I was not worried
And the light said,
"But let me
explain this new type of teacher. You are
going to teach while being in a sort of
sleep. However, it will not be the kind of
sleep that you know of. While being asleep,
you will be able to hear and talk, and they
will come to you and ask you questions."
I was deeply
impressed, but also worried. So I asked, "Will I feel pain in this process?"
replied, "No, it will not hurt you."
became accustomed to the idea of becoming a
teacher. So I asked, "Will they also learn
He made a
suggestive face, meaning that he was not
sure about that. I asked him another
question, "Will I also teach them when I am
replied, "No, you will certainly speak to
them when you are awake. But what you say
while being asleep will be of much more
And he showed me
a room in which I saw myself sitting on a
chair talking to someone. I actually did not
see myself neither did I see the person to
whom I was speaking. Nevertheless, I
definitely knew that it was I, because I was
now in that room looking about. I saw a low
table, books on the walls, two windows, and
drapes that were moving in front of a window
by a slight draught of wind.
the room disappeared and the light
said, "Before doing
this, you will have to write down everything
that has happened to you. Every detail of
it. You will have to make a scientific
I said, "Of
The light said,
"But I am afraid you will have forgotten
I shook my head
in disbelief. But he said, "You cannot even
tell me now how you came here."
I could not
belief him and tried to remember what had
happened on Earth. However, to my great
surprise, I was not able to do so.
said, "Do not worry. A
book will help you. In fact, there will be
two books, but the first one will be more
important. Besides, you will have many
light became quite enthusiastic and said
that I was to be the first teacher of this
new type, and there would be a lot more to
come. I was disappointed to hear him say so.
Nevertheless, the light wanted to show what
it meant being the first.
"What do you
think? How many people are there in your
I said, "40
millions may be?"
replied, "No, many more.
You must not only think of those who are
alive. Take into account all the human
beings that are dead and you will have a
huge number of people. Let us go back in
time, as far back as possible, and tell me
how far back we should go."
I said, "Middle
replied, "No, farther back."
I said, "The
birth of Christ?"
The light said,
"No, farther back."
I was thinking
hard, "Adam and Eve?"
replied, "No, not that. Go farther back in
time and think of what you have learned in
your history lessons."
I was thinking
for some time. Eventually I blurted out, "Stone Age?"
disappointed, and he said, "You should have
known better, but I think Stone Age will
He then told me
that in that age there were not many people
living on Earth. However, they were free to
walk wherever they wanted to go, and that
there were no borders that would keep them
from roaming about. I said, "How beautiful."
I was imagining a
map of Europe, which I had seen in my Atlas,
with all its borders. I did not have much
time to think about all this, because, all
of a sudden, I saw human beings back on
Earth. I was looking down on a group of
people, men and women, who were dressed in
furs, sitting around a campfire. I could see
a woman with her baby on her back, and a man
who was standing in front of the group
obviously making a speech. Another man stood
a little apart.
All of a sudden,
I heard a loud cry of disappointment, and
the guttural voice of the man in front of
the group of people. I did not understand
what he was saying.
disappeared and the light said, "I
am going to translate for you, but
you must concentrate very hard."
wanted to do so, because I was eager to hear
what this man was talking about. Therefore,
I started to concentrate.
said, "You call this
concentration? You have to concentrate much
I was amazed to
hear him say so, because I considered my
first attempt quite satisfactory.
Nevertheless, he wanted me to do better.
said, "Let's have
I closed my eyes
and began concentrating extremely hard.
However, the light was not in the least
He said, "I think it is
the tone of his voice became very gentle and
he came close to me and said tenderly:
"The reason for
my asking you to concentrate so hard is
that, later on, you should be able to tell
everything as accurately as possible. So you
need to concentrate like you have never done
before on what this man is going to say."
And he added in a
different voice that betrayed his
disappointment, "This is a final
attempt. If you fail this time, it will be
no use trying any longer!"
I was determined
to do my best. I closed my eyes again and
tried as hard as I could to listen to what I
was supposed to hear. All of a sudden, I was
able to understand what the man was saying.
He said, "Now we have
proof. You have just heard for yourselves.
What we have been suspecting is true. He who
took on the difficult task of making such a
dangerous journey has just returned and
confirmed our suspicion. They want to resist
us. However, we will not put up with that. I
have told you again and again. Now the time
has come to fight them. We must not wait
until they have become stronger. They are
still weak now. It is true. Nevertheless,
think of the future! We will have to attack
He was addressing
the group of people in a very impressive
manner. I was completely impressed and I
could understand very well why he was forced
to attack his enemies.
I heard this other man who was
standing apart say, "I am primarily a
hunter and fight the animals. I am not going
to fight weaklings who start running away
the very moment they catch sight of us.
Every hunter would hurt his pride and honor
if he did such a thing. We hunters fight the
animals, which are by far more dangerous.
Many brave hunters have hurt themselves in
their fights. Nevertheless, we are prepared
and willing to take the risk because we are
hunters. I will never fight those
As for me, I
could not get along with what he was saying.
After all, one had to fight one's enemies. I
could not understand that it should be more
honorable to fight animals than people.
However, I could not go on contemplating
such things, because my eyes were forced to
the ground that gradually began to move. At
first slowly, but then faster and faster
until I was no longer able to distinguish
suddenly came to a halt. I saw grassland in
front of me and in the distance there was
the edge of a forest with very high trees.
Suddenly, I was placed in the woods.
Although I could not see anything, I knew
that I was in this forest, that is, right in
the middle of a village.
I could hear
the voices of some people and I
heard someone say, "We cannot run
away forever. How many times did we have to
run away? Many, many times! Such beasts!
They come and destroy our village! And every
time we run away. But not this time! This
time we are going to stay! It cannot go on
like that forever."
I could feel fear
and anxiety. They would have liked to run
away as they had done so many times before.
However, this time they had made up their
minds and intended to stick to their firm
resolve. However, they were all full of
said, "They eat meat!
Imagine that! Meat! In addition, they build
huge fires in the prairie. They dance around
the fires and bathe in blood. However, what
remains the worst: They eat meat. The very
thought of it! In the end, they are going to
eat our flesh, too."
A voice, a
woman's voice, who was sitting in her hut,
kept saying again and again, "I am afraid. I
am terribly afraid. Oh, how scared I am! I
am scared, so scared."
I was able to
feel distinctly her anxiety. Her fear grew
stronger and stronger.
saying, "I am scared, I am scared."
Her fear began to
take hold of me. At first I thought, “Why is
she so afraid? She must be hysterical. How
on Earth can you be so afraid?!"
was being immersed, deeper and deeper, into
her feelings of sheer fear. I could not
stand it any longer! I thought to myself, "I
wish she stopped worrying now."
It was extremely
everything was over, and the light
said to me, "If they had done
nothing, nothing would have happened. It is
true; they would have come all the same.
However, nothing would have happened. This,
however, will again lead to further dead
He was stressing
the words - dead persons - and - again. I
felt great apprehension on the part of the
light concerning the large number of dead
people, so I asked, "Again?" because I was
of the opinion that I had watched the first
human beings on Earth.
answered, however, "Hundreds of
I was amazed at
this and I could feel how the light was
suffering from the great number of dead
people. I am not quite sure about what
happened next, but all of a sudden, I heard
a thunderous, angry voice accusing mankind,
including myself, of destroying his garden
He shouted, "I made you human
beings a wonderful garden and you destroy
everything. Human beings poison the water
and the air. They destroy everything. At
first, the effect of their work of
destruction was limited. However, it got
worse and worse. They destroy everything
that they can lay their hands on. Although
Man is constantly looking for other places,
he has only this one place (Earth). You
could see for yourself. And if they continue
to destroy everything they will blow up the
whole Earth in the end!"
I was completely
some time, the light said, "Ask me that you do not know how to inform
I answered, "But
you have just told me how to do it!"
insisted by saying, "Now you are again a
little and ignorant child that does not know
how to do it!"
So I asked him
that, being a little and ignorant child, I
would not know how to inform my world.
great surprise, the light answered
in an angry and brusque voice, "You will know
how to do it when the time is right."
However, I did
not want to leave him forever. So I asked
him if I could come back after having told
my world and stay with him permanently.
He said, "No, you have to
go back and live."
Although I still
did not know my way back, this time I had no
doubts whatsoever. If the Being of Light
wanted me to go back and live, I simply had
to. It did not matter any longer how it
could be done. This light had absolute
power. Nevertheless, I could still not
understand why. I repeatedly pleaded, "Why? Why can I
not come back? Why? Why? Why? Why am I not
allowed staying on in your very love and
answered that no one could stay permanently
with him. However, I still was not
satisfied. If it was not possible to stay
with him, I surely could come back and stay
in this bright world in which those two
beings were already living!
But the light
repeated, "No, you have to go back and
I replied, "But
why have these two beings been allowed to
answered that even these two beings could
not stay on permanently. They were only in
this world in order to learn. In addition,
he began to emphasize the importance of love
and learning. He wanted me to be his
apprentice. He the master, I the apprentice.
However, I still could not see what love and
learning should have to do with my wish to
stay on in this bright world.
I had, it was
true, to admit that I did not love the
light, but I certainly was willing to learn
everything that he wanted me to learn. On
that, the light started, to my great dismay,
to position himself further back in the sky,
and I could not feel his presence any
longer, because the beam had been switched
off. I suddenly felt cold and very
However, one of
the other beings asked me to watch a certain
place very carefully. Indeed, they urgently
asked me not to move but to fix my eyes on
to that place. I did what I had been told to
and presently I saw this panoramic review.
Very vividly and distinctly. I was
stupefied! The images of this film moved
very rapidly, showing me my past life on
Earth. I could instantly understand
everything that was being shown to me.
remember any of the details, because this
was only an experiment to test my ability
whether I was able to really understand what
I was watching.)
The beings asked
me several times if I could clearly
comprehend what was being shown. I answered
impatiently, "Of course, of course!"
I was slightly
annoyed about their questions.
with the beings, I always used my mouth as I
had done on Earth. This was not the case
when I was talking with the Being of Light)
Being of Light started to show me my past
life again, but this time the stress lay on
the quality of my soul during my existence
on Earth. When I was watching my past life
the first time, I was just very happy to be
able to watch my former world and myself. I
regarded this actually more as an
entertainment than anything else. I did not
feel miserable any longer.
second time, former events of my life on
Earth were shown with the emphasis on my
reaction to certain situations in terms of
love or nastiness or even hatred. This was
made quite clear to me, and I knew what to
look during the second review. Everything
started from the beginning. I could not see
how I came into existence on Earth, because
I only had to mind my behavior with regard
to love or hatred.
At first I was
very satisfied that nothing was happening to
which I could have reacted with either love
or hatred. Then, the film speeded up, but
there still was not anything for which I
could have been made responsible. I was
stupid enough to say triumphantly: "See,
there is nothing!"
On that, I could
see a scene in which my twin sister and I
were quarrelling (I could not make out the
reason for the argument), but I instantly
knew how ugly I had behaved. I said to the
light, "But you must
understand! This is bad, all right, but this
is the way human beings behave on Earth! You
cannot really blame me for that!"
The great light
did not blame me for anything that I had
done on Earth. Then I was shown some more
nasty scenes on Earth in which I had behaved
badly. However, I still had excuses. Then, I
think the great light became slightly
impatient at my stupidity, no doubt.
Suddenly, the film was accelerated to such
an extent that I was unable to distinguish
any images at all. Then it stopped abruptly,
and I was confronted with a situation in
which I behaved extremely badly.
My behavior was
tremendously enhanced, so that every bad
aspect of my character stood out clearly in
front of me. It was horrifying! I could
hardly believe this character of mine! I was
finally convinced! Such a soul could never
stay on in this bright world! I had no
right, no claim whatsoever! I was completely
shaken and dejected. I wanted to go back.
Yes, there was really no other way possible.
Then I saw
the light disappear into the "Sky",
and I heard a laughter and the
words, "And he really thought he could stay on!"
Then the Being of
Light was gone. One of the other beings
brought me back to Earth. I do not know how.
I only heard, while being tucked back into
my body, a snapping sound like the sound
that can be heard when you put the lid on
top of a mess tin securing it with the
catch. When I opened my eyes, I remember
starting to cry, "I do not want to die, I do
not want to die, and I do not want to die!"
Then I picked
myself up and in approaching the staircase,
I wondered if there would ever be a way
back, whereupon I heard a voice shout at me:
And another voice
"You must kill your mother!"
These voices are obviously from a mischievous
soul in the void.]
I am German,
male, unmarried, born 1942. Immediately
after my experience, I was very troubled and
I couldn't understand what had happened to
me. I simply did not know what to do next. I
couldn't talk to anybody about it. I wanted
to obey the Being of Light by writing a
scientific report, but I was unable to do
so. I simply did not know how to proceed.
Then suddenly a voice told me that I had to
learn another language. Period.
Then I climbed up
the stairs down which I had been jumping so
happily. I could only feel a minor swelling
on the top of my head, which was not
NDE account ends here.]
At night, I felt
very miserable. This went on for about 2
weeks, when, one night, the Being of Light
returned and said that I had to forget
everything. Later in my life, however, I
would encounter great misery.
turned myself on the other side and fell
asleep. When I woke up the following
morning, I couldn't recall a single word!!
For the following 25 years, I had lived my
life the way I wanted it to live. I became
an alcoholic and resigned from church. I
believed neither in God nor in the other
world. However, I did develop a drive for
The big change,
though, came in 1980, shortly before
Christmas Eve. On TV, there was a report on
NDEs, and they were talking about a light.
Suddenly it struck me that I, too, had once
seen such a light. Thank God, I could not
recall everything at once. Surely, it would
have killed me! I personally call this my
Saul/Paul experience, because it had a
similar effect on me. Saul had been blind
for 3 days and became an apostle later on
and I became a fighter against the devil in
and about me.
effect of all this was, however, that I
instantly got rid of my alcohol problem. The
negative effects were three suicide attempts
in 1981. (The third one almost being
successful). As an after-effect of
alcoholism, I developed a rupture of my
stomach in 1986 whereby I missed the grave
only by an inch. They took out my entire
stomach plus other organs. By the way, no
cancer. The Being of Light was right, after
In 1980/81 I
couldn't write down my experience in German,
and even today there is no German
translation, because I have not yet had the
inner O.K. from the Being of Light who is
our Lord Jesus Christ. Besides, it is more
difficult for me to translate my story into
German, because the recollection of the
experience was entirely in English, and I
have trouble finding the correct German
terms (I have never been good at translating
The following is
an interview by someone who is interested in
were about 11 years at the time. Age and
worldview have an influence on the NDE
experienced by individuals. Do you think the
Being of Light treated you as a child?
Wagner: No, I
don't. He specifically wanted to talk to me
on a man-to-man basis. At the end of my
report he said and I quote. After some time,
the light said, "Ask me that you do not know
how to inform your world." I answered,
you have just told me how to do it!" However, he
insisted by saying, "Now you are again a
little and ignorant child that does not know
how to do it!" So I asked him
that, being a little and ignorant child, I
would not know how to inform my world.
judgmental light, all the emphasis on
fighting, being told to kill your mother.
How do you feel about this?
enough, there was not only a voice at the
end of the experience, but right at the
beginning as well. There are not
only good guys in the spiritual world. The
Bible calls them demons, devil, evil beings,
serpent, dragon etc. and on Earth we are
constantly surrounded by them – sometimes
people get obsessed by them. I have been
fighting those evil spirits since 1980 and
this will continue until I die that is until
I leave my body forever. For instance, the
evil voices told me more than once that hey
were going to kill me. They hate Jesus
Christ and every person who chooses Him. I
can testify to this. Right after my
NDE/OBE, however, I had no idea whatsoever
as to whom that voice was or where it came
I feel about this?
Wagner: Well, in
spite of all that has happened, I would not
like to miss one single event of my live.
Since Christmas 1980, I have been able to
establish a personal relationship with the
Being of Light by way of internal fights,
visions and auditions and I am now in a
position to go public with my experience.
like your mother?
Wagner: Yes, I
did. I did not kill her. She died peacefully
at the age of 92 in 1994.
are both hellish and heavenly aspects to it
- both the good and the bad. How do you
explain the loving parts and the
not-so-loving parts, the way you were
treated, what you were told? I am also
curious to know about afterward.
1980 I have undergone many temptations and
have thus learned more than during my entire
stay in the other world. You could also say
that through temptations I have drawn the
Lord God Jesus Christ into existence on
Earth. Please don't get me wrong here. The
loving parts come exclusively from our Lord
Jesus Christ, who is God. The term God
includes infinity, eternity, omnipotence,
omnipresence, omniscience etc. However, no
one knows what those words actually mean.
That is why the most ancient Jews did not
name God. But this is not
so with the name Jesus Christ. He is God in
form, a visible God, a real person in whom
the fullness of the Godhead dwells
(according to Paul). Jesus Christ is plainly
man and all other human beings are made in
His image. (He being the original, we are
the copies, so to speak). His father is
Divine Love itself and He is Divine Wisdom
itself and His will is the Holy Ghost. These
three make one God in Jesus Christ. In 1996, He made
me aware of what it really means when you
say you have prayed to God, namely nothing.
A very unpleasant experience indeed,
actually one of the worst experiences I have
ever had in this respect. (Horrible,
terrifying, harrowing). The not-so-loving
parts stem from malicious, evil spirits. I
do not know whether you have ever
experienced their malice and their
slanderous behavior. Their hatred is
indescribable. They were once physical human
beings. However, they did and still do love
evil and without love no one can exist. Our
Lord God Jesus Christ has the power to
destroy them, no doubt, but He will not do
so, because of their free will and their
love. Love is what constitutes man (either
The Being of
Light (our Lord Jesus Christ) is my master
and I am His apprentice, as He told me so in
my NDE/OBE. Actually, it is not me who
fights these evil beings; it is He who does
so. He told me so in His “lecture” on the
importance of love and learning. I said in
my report, and I quote, "In addition, he
began to emphasize the importance of love
and learning." In this sentence
alone is hidden more than words can tell and
so it is with the entire account. In January
1987, for example, He taught me, "I am nothing. I
can do nothing. I have nothing. I am dead. I
am what I am through the Lord Jesus Christ.
I can do what I can do through the Lord
Jesus Christ. I have what I have through the
Lord Jesus Christ. I am alive."
In April last
year He came to me in person (although I did
not see him) and set my whole heart and
chest on fire. However, this is another
story. And so on and so on.
was it like for you after the accident?
refer to the above.
were only 11 years old. Was your body
different in any way? Were your abilities
and perceptions different in any way? How
did you feel inside? How was school for you
afterwards? Did you feel any different in
Wagner: I had
forgotten my NDE and I led a normal life. No
special feelings, occurrences etc.
your twin sister?
Wagner: She knows
nothing about it. No one in my family knows
about my experience; let alone my
must have been caught up in the war years
and what happened to Germany and with the
Wagner: No, I
have not. I was born in 1942, the war ended
in 1945. I had a happy childhood. We didn't
have much to eat, though, but we never
starved. My hometown was not subject to
enemy attacks and remained intact.
your experience at the age of 11 make any
difference in what you saw, how you felt,
about what was going on around you?
Wagner: No, it
did not. I simply didn't understand what had
happened to me and I kept thinking about it.
Question: Do you
suppose that your experience presaged
(prepared you for) the war?
Wagner: No, I do
not. I was a baby at that time.
Question: Do you
suppose the Being of Light was so mean and
spoke so much of fighting because that is
what your world was filled with at that
Wagner: No, I do
not. Besides, our world is still filled with
fighting. (The Being of Light is never mean,
your experience prepare you for the war and
the after-effects of the war, how it would
affect you as a youngster, and what you
would have to go through?
Wagner: No, it
did not. I forgot everything.
Question: I do
believe you had a near-death experience, not
just an out-of-body experience.
Wagner: So do I.
Question: I have
found that with the majority of child
experiencers of near-death states, it takes
about 20 to 30 years, even 40 years, before
they are able to understand what happened to
them and integrate their experience.
Wagner: That is
most certainly true.
turn to alcohol within about 5 to 8 years of
Wagner: You are
right on, indeed. I turned to alcohol when I
was about 20 years old. By the way, I had
three OBEs altogether; the first one during
birth, the second one when I was about four,
the third one at the age of 11 or 12. In
1980/81, while recollecting my experience, I
recalled those two other experiences, as
well, which made things worse at the time.
suspect there is more to your story.
Wagner: You are
certainly right here.